May 4, 2014

Do Grades Demotivate Students? with @alicekeeler

  1. Welcome to #txeduchat tonight! First things first: #MayThe4thBeWithYou and Introductions. Tell us who you are, where you are from and more.
  2. Alice Keeler - sneaking in from California. I teach teachers, former math teacher. I believe kids are not failures #txeduchat
  3. Hello TX educhat Kent HS principal checking in from KS #txeduchat
  4. Hello everyone. Eric from Michigan. 8th grade HST & ELA. #txeduchat
  5. @txeduchat Sneaking in #txeduchat between the final scenes of the Hobbit - sort of #StarWarsDay ?? Love the topic!
  6. Q1: What are some of the positive aspects of letter grades? (A, B, C, D, F) #TXeduchat
  7. @alicekeeler :) I can tell you have a lot to say about this, most of which I will probably agree w/ #txeduchat
  8. A1) The feedback is important. Students need a goal to pursue. #txeduchat
  9. A1 Grades can show Ss that they are learning. Struggling with grades right now, it's a short list in my mind. #gradesonmylist #txeduchat
  10. Welcome #txeduchat participants I'm a tx teacher librarian - always a pleasure to learn from this great chat
  11. Paul from Alberta, Canada #txeduchat 50/50 Elem. Principal & Teacher - I'm Late - please don't deduct any points!
  12. @DebRdgRox #txeduchat Me too! The mutts are wagging their tails and ready to go.
  13. A1: Parent communicator, it drives the motivation of an elite number of students #txeduchat
  14. A1: Parent communicator, it drives the motivation of an elite number of students #txeduchat
  15. A1: students have something to strive for. They get a B and with feedback try for the A next time. #txeduchat
  16. A1: Grade letters represent how many of us once learned - they are a standard that many claim are well understood, tradition #txeduchat
  17. #TXeduchat A1 Parents are familiar, we don't have to retrain them on how to read report cards. That's it.
  18. @Sciology #txeduchat Think of you often and have fingers crossed you will find perfect place.
  19. A1 Students are accustom to this form of grading. Parents also know what theses types of grades mean. There is comfort in these. #txeduchat
  20. A1 Positive aspects of grades is that they are straight to the point. You either got it, got it really well or didn't at all #txeduchat
  21. Charles IT/College Govt Instr. & Foot-In-Mouth Specialist Flower Mound, Tx #txeduchat
  22. @TheWeirdTeacher That is an important note. When you do other systems you have to educate a large group of stakeholders #txeduchat
  23. A1 Letter grades are good as long as they accurately represent a range of learning & not a ranking or behavior #txeduchat
  24. @alicekeeler I really can't think of anything that I would want to hang my hat on. #txeduchat
  25. A1: At the least letter grades provide a measure of feedback & some Ss use the achievement of an "A" as their motivation #txeduchat
  26. A1:+something Ps understand;however is it a trick ?...son said "look I got an A!" asked,"What did u learn?"couldn't answer :( #txeduchat
  27. #txeduchat letter grades are familiar to parents & give them a yardstick to measure progress.
  28. @JenaiaMorane Thank you so much. I want to find a good fit so I can connect my class with you next year. On my to do list. #txeduchat
  29. A1: It is familiar. If a student did well, then they get positive feedback that boosts self-esteem. #txeduchat
  30. A1 Grades are what parents have experience in so are on familiar ground #txeduchat
  31. A1: pros of grades: high standards- feeling of success- completion- assessment #txeduchat hoop jumping has its place @alicekeeler
  32. @KiplingEric @alicekeeler Don't think grades are always reflective of what Ss learn. Some Ss learn so much but don't test well. #txeduchat
  33. @Tom_Kilgore #txeduchat I always enjoy this one. KNow so many folks now that I visited. Feels kind of like home :-)
  34. @DK_11 Depends, research shows that only works for high achieving students. Check out work by Ames. #txeduchat
  35. A1: they are easy. Especially for those who don't like change. ( not me) #txeduchat
  36. A1 People are used to them. It's what we've always done (actually not a positive). There is a structure in place to give meaning. #txeduchat
  37. Shawna from Justin. Joining this one for the first time. #txeduchat
  38. A1: Positive aspects of grades: Gives parents a sense of their child's compliance. That's the most positive I can be! #txeduchat
  39. A1They allow students to see how they are doing. But may not always have a positive affect. #txeduchat
  40. A1 #txeduchat There is comfort in how these have been done in the past.
  41. @alicekeeler No. Sorry I was reaching for some kind of answer. I actually think they get in the way to learning. #txeduchat
  42. @alicekeeler A1: They help us keep history alive by using an archaic and nostalgic form of assessment. #txeduchat
  43. A1: Honestly, I started teaching 7 years ago and have never used letter grades on assignments. #TXeduchat
  44. Grades are excellent for giving a non-specific feedback. #txeduchat
  45. A1 Grades are what the parents know…This is comfortable for them…they know what letter grades mean…glad I teach k/1 #txeduchat
  46. Q2: In what ways have you noticed that grades can detract from the goal of learning? #TXeduchat
  47. Grades give parents something to brag about to their friends! ;) Grades are measure to separate Ss into groups. #txeduchat
  48. A1: In my opinion, grades are more for the parents' benefit than the students'. #txeduchat
  49. A2 Kids just want to do what it takes to get the grade. It is not indicative of the learning that is or is not taking place. #txeduchat
  50. A2 - Grades can distract from discussing learning, growth and improvement. #txeduchat
  51. A1) Comfort In Grades? Like all pseudo sciences...Abstracts/Summarizes quickly measuring...which means details are left in floor #txeduchat
  52. A2 - I had a student flat out tell me she will only do work if she has a deadline and will lose points for not having it in. #txeduchat
  53. A2 Focus is misdirected. If all you are wanting to achieve is a letter grade, then the learning is lost when they fail. #txeduchat
  54. @Cjprofeta REALLY?! What grade do you teach? Standards based gradebook? #txeduchat
  55. A2 There really is no learning done…it is memorization and product for the purpose of a grade not for learning #txeduchat
  56. #TXeduchat A2 Someone somewhere along the way put the wrong emphasis on a grade for a child, which the child internalized.
  57. @mrgfactoftheday I had some of my ADULT students tell me they wanted more deadlines…. #txeduchat
  58. A2: Ss don't always try there best or be creative. They just do what's needed to get the grade. #txeduchat
  59. Q1: Grades: my daughter says - "well if they are good, like an A they are a great thing, but doesn't tell u how u can improve" #txeduchat
  60. Grades do motivate students. Marking I (incomplete) instead of an F ( fail) gives students hope to try the second time. #txeduchat
  61. @Cjprofeta Awesome! That's quite the stance! Public school? How did you get around it? #txeduchat
  62. @alicekeeler A2 students are too focused on the grade, and not enough on the learning journey #txeduchat
  63. A2: Low grades in some households results in punishment - leading to fear of failure and reduced risk taking #txeduchat
  64. A2 students focusing on just getting it done, shortcuts, cheating etc instead of learning #txeduchat
  65. A2:When you give grades, it is all that Ss seem to care about. When I hand back a paper, they all ask, what did I get? #txeduchat
  66. A2. When Ss are more focused on the grade, mark, or 'whatever' to get the A, B, C, then Ss are learning for the wrong reasons. #txeduchat
  67. @alicekeeler absolutely we should be forward thinkers! We should always have our ss best interest at heart #txeduchat
  68. #txeduchat A2: letter grades can offer a false exterior motivation for Ss
  69. @tracyacramer we started using standards based "grades" this year for grade 1--already use SBG for kdg #txeduchat Very well rec'd so far
  70. A2: grades don't mean real learning- you can teach yourself but proof is sometimes required #txeduchat documentation is a real world...
  71. @DebRdgRox You are so right Debbie. Sad, I want what is best for kids, not a century old tradition. #txeduchat
  72. A2: If Ss get a 4/5, "it's good enough." They won't work to master the concept. Also, don't take risks for fear of failure. #TXeduchat
  73. A2: Ss can be mislead in thinking "I want an A" without actually considering what that involves, or what they need to learn. #txeduchat
  74. A2 Grades can box you in. They also keep you from giving meaningful feedback that can move students forward. #txeduchat
  75. #txeduchat A1 Grades are the traditional benchmark everyone is used to using to show academic progress.
  76. #txeduchat Honestly don't see upside 2 grades. Ss not cars on assembly line to be quality tested. Each different. Need diff assessment model
  77. A2: ss who receive less than A are disappointed & afraid 2 show parents. Learning is forgotten in pursuit of parent acceptance #txeduchat
  78. @valibrarian I agree, you need to be able to document it. I one time had a Ss tell me it was all in his head…. I can’t grade that #txeduchat
  79. @snnickols I don't think so. Feedback provides more than simply an arbitrary number or letter.#txeduchat
  80. A2) Too many Ss strive just for the grade and don't actually care to learn the material. No enthusiasm or passion for learning. #txeduchat
  81. A2: Instead, I want Ss to focus on the learning not the grade. What did you "get" from the lesson, not what grade did you "get"#txeduchat
  82. A2 grades make kids Hoop-Jumpers. Dogs work for treats. They are Ss treats for doing what they are told. Sickening really. #txeduchat
  83. A2: Ss want to earn a letter instead gain understanding. They don't know why what they're learning matters. #TXeduchat
  84. I love proficiency scales. Not sure I will ever see this in my career, but one could always hope! #txeduchat
  85. I read a research article this week … up to a 40 point difference when diff Ts grade same papers. #txeduchat
  86. A2 Daughter says, "if grade is bad, then Ss think I don't well & then they would give up cuz don't know other ways to succeed" #txeduchat
  87. #txeduchat A2 Grades, like words, aren't bad. Thoughts and emotions connected to them can be though. Adults need to take care and be aware.
  88. A2: Letter grades lead us to ranking and sorting students-we should be working with them to set, approach, monitor and reflect #txeduchat
  89. MT YES! @ChristineYH A2. Ss are focused on the grade, mark, or 'whatever' to get the A, B, C, THEY are learnng for wrong reasons. #txeduchat
  90. A2: I'm in a compliance theme tonight...grades detract from lrng and focus on how compliant the S is in class. #txeduchat
  91. A2: Some Ss see them as a label, hard to motivate oneself when you are seeing yourself as an "F" #txeduchat
  92. true @ChristineYH Ss sometimes say "is this what YOU want" to get grades rather than learn thru engagement #txeduchat
  93. A2: We philosophically see the problems with assigning grades, but persist in this tradition. Hum?#txeduchat
  94. @nathan_stevens And even they are starting to look at other things besides GPA #txeduchat
  95. A2 When kids attach who they are to their grade, that is not a good thing. Smart doesn't always mean "A" student. #txeduchat
  96. A2: Ss focused on grd not learning.Results Only Learning Environment (ROLE)about learning/mastery rather than grds seems a better #txeduchat
  97. @TheWeirdTeacher I have made awesome progress with students and then when the 6 week progress report came out… I lost them. #txeduchat
  98. #txeduchat Need system 2 assess how each child is progressing as opposed 2 saying this=normal & U either are or aren't. No 1 size fits all
  99. @jaherbel way easier! Just keep asking her the questions... She's in grade 4 #txeduchat
  100. @alicekeeler Would love to read that paper. Please share if you still have the link. #txeduchat
  101. @Cjprofeta Too often I see students simply look at the grade and not at what they did correctly/incorrectly. #txeduchat
  102. #txeduchat A2 It’s odd, isn’t it, that the same grading metric used in college is used in elementary school?
  103. @alicekeeler #TXeduchat Right, but I bet someone (not you) along the way quantified "learning" through grades diff than we'd like.
  104. @alicekeeler @txeduchat #txeduchat I always worked really hard for good grades. Didn't mean I learned one thing deeply. Score well...FORGET!
  105. A2: Grades lend itself to my most hated question "Is this for a grade?" grrrr! #txeduchat
  106. A2: Ss look at the grade and if it's passing don't pay attention to improvements they need to make. #txeduchat
  107. Q3a: Research shows that given low scores or negative feedback that low performing students (Ss) will avoid tasks. #TXeduchat
  108. @theipodteacher @txeduchat MANY classes, I gamed the system. Class was lame. I got an A… but who cares. #txeduchat
  109. @Tom_Kilgore #txeduchat Bad 4 Ss, bad 4 everyone becuz don't get benefit of unique qualities each child brings. Why so afraid of difference?
  110. @Cjprofeta They do promote Ss "chasing" a grade Chris, have been guilty in college myself! #txeduchat
  111. A2: Ss don't read feedback once they see a grade even if we provide excellent feedback, we are shooting our own foot w a grade! #txeduchat
  112. #txeduchat A2 What does any grade equate to outside the classroom?
  113. @alicekeeler Some Ts would say they should have very specific rubric. Thats swear word in my classroom. I apologize if I say it. #txeduchat
  114. “What do I need to get an A” not … “How can I learn more” #txeduchat
  115. #txeduchat they reinforce many students beliefs that success is unattainable. Grades don't reflect growth.
  116. @teachkiwi or is there a way for me to earn two extra points to get an A #txeduchat
  117. A2: once a S has been getting the same grade for years. It's in their head they are now that grade of student. #txeduchat
  118. Q3: What are some strategies we can use to help low performing Ss from becoming demotivating and avoiding tasks? #TXeduchat
  119. If learners take on personal responsibility - grades become irrelevant #txeduchat @alicekeeler that's critical for 21st century learning
  120. @KiplingEric Oh I am with you, rubrics are not making me too excited either. #txeduchat
  121. @alicekeeler @txeduchat #txeduchat We should focus on deep, meaningful, relevant learning instead of scores.
  122. @tracyacramer #SBG ---mastery, proficient, still working/developing, not developed-- in RE to grade level/age expectations #txeduchat
  123. A3. There is nothing in a 0/30, C- or an X that would motivate me to learn more about the subject matter. #notformative #txeduchat
  124. #txeduchat A2: Studying just for the test & then forgetting everything
  125. @alicekeeler Don't get me started on grades. Especially don't get me going on homework or else we wud be here all night #txeduchat
  126. @nolagirlfromtx Had a long discussion with my son about this. Kid is a brilliant logical thinker that does not make A's. #txeduchat
  127. @beyondtech1 @ChristineYH #txeduchat Question WHAT they're learning too. How U conform more important than who U are? Competition? Judgment?
  128. A3 - Re-takes. Talk to the kid and find out what happened. Offer some other way to "show what ya know." #txeduchat
  129. A2 - Not focusing on grades this year has had wonderful results! Everyone helps everyone in class, little stress to finish, etc. #txeduchat
  130. #TXeduchat A3 Praise all improvements. Small improvements. Explicitly define "grade" for them as you see it. Praise. Praise. Praise.
  131. A3) Been having a lot of success using gamification in the classroom. Low performing students are becoming more motivated. #txeduchat
  132. A3:Fate Control- help them to identify areas to grow.Set small, reasonable goals Design strategies. Implement. Monitor. Reflect #txeduchat
  133. A2 Extra credit to get grades higher so parents are happy does not mean additional learning has occurred. #txeduchat
  134. #txeduchat A3a Negative feedback, whether in electronic circuits, on the manufacturing floor or in 3rd grade decreases performance.
  135. A3 Growth mindset =I can figure it out & get better. Fixed mindset = not based on effort -cuz I'm smart. #txeduchat
  136. @alicekeeler Research also supports high performing Ss are afraid to do a task they think they will fail(F) at so they avoid it #txeduchat
  137. @alicekeeler @theipodteacher @txeduchat That happens too much,especially w/ our brightest not learning grit or resilence; so sad #txeduchat
  138. A2) Focusing on grades narrows the scope of education. #txeduchat
  139. A3 Ss are excited & eager for learning in K, 1, 2. What happens? My 8th G Ss are working for the grade. #txeduchat
  140. A3: D says" if someone is struggling with something, a bad grade will tempt them to give up. Rubric would be far more helpful" #txeduchat
  141. A3 The learning must be personalized. Move 2 Student Driven Learning & PBL 2 allow kids to show what they know. Kids have stake! #txeduchat
  142. @paulpichurski #txeduchat YES! Ss are naturally curious, have individual likes, dislikes, strengths, skills. NOT cars 2 be quality tested.
  143. @JenaiaMorane @beyondtech1 Agreed. Is that what we are trying to teach? Conformity. It disheartens me. What about empowerment? #txeduchat
  144. @KiplingEric Ames says that is because young children have not connected their effort with their achievement yet. #txeduchat
  145. @PaulSolarz That is great! When kids are stressed, they learn less. Stop the madness. #txeduchat
  146. A3: give the Ss choice. Allow them to make some decisions. #txeduchat
  147. A3 Even if you aren't a SBG school, focusing on mastery and "why" works. Kids want a chance to learn & we have to give them that #txeduchat
  148. A3: Problem-based and inquiry learning strategies can help level the playing field so all students experience success #txeduchat
  149. @Tom_Kilgore #txeduchat - I've had a lot of success by not handing back grades outside of required report cards. Focus on feedback only
  150. A3 Ss need to feel that their work is real and relevant. They need the chance to collaborate and have choice on tangible outcome #TXeduchat
  151. A3: Give more Ss choice in activities/assessments, give feedback to show progress, #gamification (works well for my unmotivated) #TXeduchat
  152. A3 believe in them, and tell them you believe in them. #TXeduchat
  153. A3: Allow students to demonstrate learning in ways that they are strong in. They don't all need the same type of assessment. #txeduchat
  154. A3: student choice, meaningful work (performance, sharing info outside school walls), real world relevance, novelty, technology #txeduchat
  155. @DrBeckyO love to hear this, we are putting #minecraftedu in one of our low preforming schools. very excited about it. #txeduchat
  156. A3: Frequent formative feedback before grading, rubrics so expectations clear, & understanding that grades don't define Ss #txeduchat
  157. A3: Create meaningful activities that Ss can connect with real world examples from their life experiences #TXeduchat
  158. A3: don't penalize lrng (formative assessments) and don't avg grades. Let go of tradition. #txeduchat
  159. Remember that you can grow your Personal Learning Network (PLN) by following fellow chatters in #txeduchat tonight!
  160. Late to this chat, Beth, here! so glad these chats are archived! #txeduchat
  161. @bkuhl2you me what u knows have more ownership of the learning. Doesn't matter how u show to help u succeed #txeduchat
  162. A3) Keep the task in front of them; don't send it home. If you're there w/them & the work, you can be coach, cheerleader. #TXeduchat
  163. @ChristineYH @JenaiaMorane Yes prefer empowermt - how this happens is creativity in the envir #txeduchat
  164. A3: I think not putting a grade on the actual paper/assignment would go a long way. Rubrics, performance scales, yes. #TXeduchat
  165. #txeduchat A3a How objective are analog grades that are so susceptible to bias?
  166. @valibrarian Tell me about it. Is there another way than "hoop jumping?" How about "demonstration of knowledge?" #txeduchat #purpose
  167. A3We must focus on individual needs.. Offer ways to show what they know... Presentations, projects, something hands on.. #TXeduchat
  168. @beyondtech1 definitely! I visited a college class not long ago... Learners in the field of their passion were asking same ?'s #txeduchat
  169. @alicekeeler A3: Focus assessment on descriptive helpful feedback for all. Provide opportunities for resubmitting. #TXeduchat
  170. #txeduchat A3: coronet learning to their interests and make it meaningful. Give real world examples and experiences #connectEd
  171. A3: group work. Watch certain Ss take certain roles. They will all find their place. #txeduchat
  172. @alicekeeler A3 be more of the facilitator and ask question. Let them lead. Take their mind of grades #TXeduchat
  173. @verenanz #TXeduchat I've used "Must - Should - Could" checklist w/ success. Suggested by my colleague @lesmcbeth to lead stndts to success
  174. @algebrasfriend Glad you could join us - better late than never and the archive is always available. #txeduchat
  175. A3 studies show if Ts are told certain Ss are capable of high scores, the Ss score high, even when the Ss are randomly selected #TXeduchat
  176. @Sciology agree:EC makes no sense. Why not have Ss go back & learn what they missed & reassess rather than tacking on more work #txeduchat
  177. @beyondtech1 @JenaiaMorane Love to see more creativity in the classroom, by both Ts and Ss... why not principals & trustees too. #txeduchat
  178. A3 Focus on their individual strengths. They learn differently so it is up to Ts to teach differently to them for their success. #txeduchat
  179. A3: inquiry based learning - students are answering their own questions to drive learning #txeduchat
  180. @azawlocki some Ss not all of us...LOL...some of us want feedback even if there isn't a lot....something is better than nothing #txeduchat
  181. @nathan_stevens but then the progress report comes out… there goes your efforts. #txeduchat
  182. @Cjprofeta #txeduchat Yes. Why luv PBL. Lets Ss apply what learn in class 2 real world. We do project that lets Ss help rescue homeless dogs
  183. A3: Show Ss continuum of learning. Where they started and where they are headed but give them some control. #txeduchat
  184. A3: best way to motivate low performing Ss is to develop caring relationship & find personal interest #txeduchat I find a book they like
  185. @Think_teach @Tom_Kilgore there's value in feedback couple with "100 points" for completion grade. You're right, key is feedback #TXeduchat
  186. #txeduchat A3 Tie the grade (somehow) to something tangible and real.
  187. @azawlocki @KiplingEric There are lots of things we do because of expectations… I don’t play that game #txeduchat
  188. @ChristineYH @JenaiaMorane Creativity at all levels incl trustees, admins Evryone is part of community & helps to grow it #txeduchat
  189. #txeduchat wondering if their are any administrators following this. Wonder what they think. I know what mine believe. It's far from thus
  190. @TechChique Yes, but so hard to do when we're required to take a certain number of grades. #txeduchat
  191. @valibrarian yes, let them see that you are just like them. You struggle. You have strengths and weaknesses . Work together #txeduchat
  192. @alicekeeler my son and I haven't seen a progress report in a while #TXeduchat my younger son is another story
  193. A3 build relationships; help make connections between interests and the work #txeduchat
  194. A3) Many of my Ss who aren't motivated to do schoolwork have bigger fish to fry outside of school. Lil sibs, housework. See that. #TXeduchat
  195. @nolagirlfromtx How do we break that mold? Exciting to know I am part of gen that will revolutionize ed like never before! #TXeduchat
  196. @alicekeeler @mrgfactoftheday Same here-Told Ss they could argue for higher grade-they're fluid-Response:?We've never done that? #txeduchat
  197. @dayankee Reinforces "in the box" thinking. Ss then often resort to "just tell me what to do" mentality. #txeduchat
  198. @cvanscoyoc and they are more engaged and are proud of their learning. It's the mind shift for some ps and ts that is hard #txeduchat
  199. @ChristineYH @beyondtech1 #txeduchat U would love CritterKin. Teaching kindness & core skills thru stories, writing,drawing & PBL. It works!
  200. @cvanscoyoc #txeduchat - check out @QuestUniCanada approach using Big Qs to allow Ss ownership & accountability in their learning
  201. @teachkiwi Fab! Interesting evryone falls in same trap. shows how ingrained ideas are. #txeduchat
  202. @FarleyJeffrey I see a lot of kids from educated parents.. their parents do the work for them. So who are we assessing? #txeduchat
  203. @Think_teach LOVE that idea! Encouraged student to evaluate their own learning! (While knowing you are on the side...) #TXeduchat
  204. @nolagirlfromtx I document and make notes.. That's where I get my grades... May be harder in upper grades.. #TXeduchat
  205. @FarleyJeffrey yep, we dont know the pressures they have at home. My husband took care of his 4 siblings from age 5 on #txeduchat
  206. Q5: Do letter grades foster intrinsic or Extrinsic motivation? Give examples #TXeduchat
  207. A3) offer support, help them through problems, anything to get them to pick up a pencil. #txeduchat
  208. @verenanz @alicekeeler Yeah. You could do that. If you know the family is there in that capacity. If not it could be a hindrance. #txeduchat
  209. A3:did #geniushour &leveled playing field; often most tech savvy were Ss that struggled with content they became #rockstars #txeduchat
  210. A3: It's especially important to minimize focus on grades w/low-performing Ss. Constant feedback is key to helping them improve. #txeduchat
  211. A: establishing a culture that thrives on seeking new info and looking at "old" info differently--risk! Ss know they matter! #txeduchat
  212. @Think_teach @verenanz @lesmcbeth I like the sounds of this. Any examples you could share or resources for more info. #txeduchat
  213. @alicekeeler @azawlocki @KiplingEric - agreed - each S is a unique learner experiencing ur classroom in their own way. Be attuned #txeduchat
  214. @alicekeeler @nathan_stevens Good thing about electronic grade reports is that some of the younger elem. Ss don't even see them. #txeduchat
  215. @valibrarian I hear you. I'm trying to finish my dissertation & this is what I've learned. When does it stop? #txeduchat #idealist
  216. @alicekeeler @FarleyJeffrey One reason I have VERY little homework, want to assess real level of understanding not parents #txeduchat
  217. @alicekeeler A5: Extrinsic - work is being compared against some sort of external standard. #TXeduchat
  218. @FarleyJeffrey @alicekeeler Tell me more hinders? nice to send home question to learn at home? Not every night? Include parents? #TXeduchat
  219. @daisyray215 If we don't let those kids know that we're capable of understanding their humanity, we'll never win their motivation #txeduchat
  220. I gather that we are talking about grades. Can anyone retweet the question? #txeduchat
  221. #txeduchat A5 Dunno. Grades tell individual Ss where they fall compared to peers. They say nothing about intrinsic ability.
  222. @DrBeckyO @jaherbel ha! My son & I are writing about minecraft right now :). We use his passion at home to learn "stuff" #txeduchat
  223. A5: Extrinsic. They are a "reward" system for playing the game. #txeduchat
  224. @alicekeeler A5: Intrinsic motivation comes from a cognitive gap formed by curiosity. #TXeduchat
  225. @KiplingEric Has to come from higher up. Teachers required to take a certain number of grades in most districts. #txeduchat
  226. @verenanz @FarleyJeffrey I dig the idea of a parent newsletter that helps them with support IF THEY WANT TO #txeduchat
  227. @verenanz @Think_teach 1 thing many Ts I coach have been working on w/ Stndrd Based Bulletin Boards w/T FdBck is S & Peer FdBck #txeduchat
  228. #txeduchat Q3:students who struggle need to see what they are doing right! An F is not a path to success. It is a closed door.
  229. A5) intrinsic if they want the grade, extrinsic if parents want them to have grade or peer pressure #TXeduchat
  230. A5: It depends on the student. Some see grades as an end while others see learning as a forever process. #TXeduchat
  231. A5 The support extrinsic motivation.I do this to get that. Back to extra credit I go.If I get extra credit, my grade will go up. #txeduchat
  232. A4 may vary with Ss. Personal experience some work for the A's to please others. I tell my girls if you did your best be proud. #TXeduchat
  233. A3: Using multiple intelligences theory as basis for learning can help all students experience success #txeduchat
  234. A5: Only extrinsic. Even Ss who strive for the higher grade do it bc of recognition, not because they are motivated to lrn more. #TXeduchat
  235. @alicekeeler We get a lot of this, too. That alone can make kids who've grown accustomed to it shut down in class. #txeduchat
  236. IMO letter grades are antiquated, but ppl don't like change and prefer to do what they've always done - teach like u were taught #TXeduchat
  237. @Thrasymachus @jaherbel This is so great! Just about to have our first kid -want to do lots of this type of thing at home too. #txeduchat
  238. @JenaiaMorane throws a poke at Jena or whatever they are doing these days on Facebook. Maybe toss a digital cow #TXeduchat
  239. #txeduchat A5 I’ve heard from the pros, like @SirKenRobinson, schools kill creativity by 3rd grade. Is there a correlation with grades?
  240. A5) any outside motivation is extrinsic. Learning should be intrinsic. People should follow what they want but keep an open mind #txeduchat
  241. @alicekeeler Intrinsic motivation results from authentic desire and from creation, not from achieving a letter or number. #TXeduchat
  242. @tracyacramer long range is consideration for SBG up to 3rd grade after progressive implementation @ grade 2 possible next yr #txeduchat
  243. #txeduchat A3: Find ways to #play with your students - Let them see you are cool and you care. Allow them as much choice as possible.
  244. @alicekeeler @FarleyJeffrey Parents have 2b part of the marks/ grades convo? If we all learn about PBL/inquiry together- change? #TXeduchat
  245. A5: It is a reward/label system, usually seen as extrinsic for most Ss in my opinion. #txeduchat
  246. 1.1 The final assignment for my Tx Govt classes this semester is to make a tutorial video over 3 related things you've learned #txeduchat
  247. .@drgoffney Precisely, grading system is antiquated & doesn't fit the diversity of students we see & diff learning strategies #txeduchat
  248. As educators we have to come up with things besides paper test to show that students are learning #TXeduchat
  249. If you change grade system, you have to replace it w/ somethg else clearly defined #txeduchat
  250. Even as an adult in my Masters program I wanted the highest GPA not for me so that I could show others I could do it. #TXeduchat
  251. @beyondtech1 YES! You can not just throw out a tradition without replacing it with something else. #txeduchat
  252. @MitchChampagne @alicekeeler Definitely not usually a true internal motivation in my view either Mitch, often just compliance #txeduchat
  253. @alicekeeler @FarleyJeffrey Ah - totally agree with choice, student, parent, educator-> learning community :) #TXeduchat
  254. #txeduchat we can allow them to retest. They can demonstrate knowledge in format that favors success. Focus on growth not deficits.
  255. #txeduchat A5 As for extrinsic, it depends on where message comes from: caring Ts, Ps. A report card to be opened by P was frightening to me
  256. #txeduchat A5 Grades foster extrinsic motivation. We foster intrinsic motivation. Use the two together properly for full motivation. 25/75
  257. @Think_teach @Sciology @FarleyJeffrey so much pressures on kids these days. Sports out the wazoo...STAAR, split families #txeduchat
  258. @alicekeeler That will only get you a revolt from parents and othr stakeholders #txeduchat
  259. A5 Extrinsic, good grades equal happy teachers and parents. Poor grades they'll be in trouble (for some) #TXeduchat
  260. A3a: I give both positive & negative feedback to students daily, but neg. FB is always reported as a means towards improvement. #txeduchat
  261. @DrBeckyO #TXeduchat check out the work of @PaulDarvasi & @m_dt_farley -their blogs are goldmines for intro' of gaming in many diff' classes
  262. @rondorland Welcome Ron, I’m trying to keep my 5 kiddo’s away… hard. #txeduchat
  263. @TechChique @nolagirlfromtx Definitely more difficult, but a hybrid can be developed for the short term. #TXeduchat
  264. @drgoffney It's a systemic shift. Heavy emphasis on grades need to change from college/university level down. #TXeduchat
  265. @verenanz @alicekeeler When my S's Ps come & ask me how to keep learning going at home, I'm glad to oblige, but no assumptions. #txeduchat
  266. I am frustrated with the amount of time we can spend talking aboot Grading & Reporting - always seems like post-mortem work. #txeduchat
  267. Q6: 3 question quiz - grade choices are A, D or F. What are potential motivation challenges? #TXeduchat
  268. @beyondtech1 Replacing it will get a revolt? I have had very good success. #txeduchat
  269. @alicekeeler Definitely extrinsic... Ss will always use the grade scale to either measure themselves or find a reason to quit #TXeduchat
  270. @beyondtech1 @alicekeeler The grading revolution... replace the existing system with something that is steeped in research #txeduchat
  271. @beyondtech1 Have you read about Results Only Learning Environment (ROLE)it looks like a promising transformation;no replacement! #txeduchat
  272. A5. Grades foster EXTRINSIC motivation... It's either motivated by reward or punishment. Fear-based learning is NOT effective. #txeduchat
  273. @mrschun @drgoffney Agreed. Most of my HS Ss are so focused on grades for college admissions. Has to come from higher ed down. #txeduchat
  274. A5: Straight A's motivates many Ss but one B can send some Ss crashing. IMO, more trouble comes from letter grades than benefits. #txeduchat
  275. @ChristineYH Totally agree! Grades can be so negative. 60% of the scale is aimed toward failure #txeduchat
  276. if u r giving the test it better be for feedback. not just for percent #txeduchat
  277. @niseyharris9381 #TXeduchat - have had lots of success leveraging tech in this way: Check out @AaronVigar's work w/ @ThingLink
  278. @ChristineYH And it is a learned culture that will be carried forward into workplace and families... not a good future #TXeduchat
  279. @FarleyJeffrey I would still scaffold learning opps, like sending home problem- Udon't know what U don't know > choice :) #TXeduchat
  280. Grading is about as precise as slicing strawberries with a hammer. #txeduchat
  281. @mrschun @drgoffney If we continue SBL through middle and high school, colleges will have to adapt. #txeduchat
  282. A6. A=stress to maintain average; D=stress to just pass; F=stress of imminent failure. Yup. Motivated by stress and fear X 3. #txeduchat
  283. @DebRdgRox I'm fully supported. My Ss show better than expected growth on standardized tests & Ps are confident in the system. #txeduchat
  284. A6: Have seen this, leads to either "I'm awesome" or "I'm a failure" views by Ss. Shouldn't assess w/such a small item tool imo #txeduchat
  285. @TheWeirdTeacher we foster learning, and tap into what motivates our students, each is different, & we have policies to follow #txeduchat
  286. #txeduchat A6 F has meaning well beyond the classroom. A, D.. can’t say.
  287. LOVE -> “@MrZawlocki: @mrschun @drgoffney If we continue SBL through middle and high school, colleges will have to adapt. #txeduchat
  288. .@ChristineYH I agree abt fear-based not being good,but devil's advocate, aren't we all extrinsically motivated abt some things? #txeduchat
  289. @DebRdgRox #TXeduchat I'm adopting an "error-analysis" approach after final submission so they get assessed on how to use feedback in future
  290. I have to be mindful of my frame of mind too. “@alicekeeler: Grading is about as precise as slicing strawberries with a hammer. #txeduchat
  291. @alicekeeler Great analogy. Would the use of moderation with colleagues change the hammer into something less drastic? #TXeduchat
  292. A6 That is a tough quiz format. The problem is the emphasis is now on the grading system rather than outcomes. #txeduchat
  293. @verenanz @FarleyJeffrey Ss can choose to do whatever they want outside of class, I hope I made them passionate to keep learning #txeduchat
  294. A6) A's can be motivating for the best students, but D and F usually just demotivating #TXeduchat
  295. @mrschun @drgoffney Higher Ed needs to articulate that they do not need grades to admit Ss, then systemic change will occur. #TXeduchat
  296. .@Think_teach Digital forms of expression (e.g., blogging, digital storytelling) hold potential deconstruct grading systems #txeduchat
  297. @MitchChampagne I know I do not grade the bottom of the pile the same as the top of the pile. #txeduchat
  298. A6: I can give great feedback with a single question quiz. Trick is, it needs to be a good question. #TXeduchat
  299. Does a grade represent overall learning or incremental? Can Ss go from F to A over time&get same grade as Ss who already know it?#txeduchat
  300. @teachkiwi Yes, extrinsic motivation may be required at first to get started. Intrinsic motivation learned from engagement. #txeduchat
  301. @ChristineYH @beyondtech1 #txeduchat LUV finding kindred spirit. CritterKin =PBL 2 teach kindness using story, drawing, writing, dance, etc.
  302. @ChristineYH @txeduchat #txeduchat - as well as post-secondary institutions that still value the sacred GPA
  303. @azawlocki Development of intrinsic motivation is the key to life long development of career readiness skills. #TXeduchat
  304. @iamcicelyjones If parents want to, more power to them. I am not going to fight with my kids at home. Especially about wksts #txeduchat
  305. #txeduchat sorry for jumping in late, but @alicekeeler caught my attention. I'm Rolland from ON, Canada
  306. @ChristineYH Put that way, sort of changes way you think abt it all doesnt it? #txeduchat
  307. @mrschun @drgoffney No correlation BN ACT score and GPA. Pretty clear that one isn't working. Pm us the fixed. #TXeduchat
  308. @beyondtech1 You MUST be prepared to have a convo with every one of them. Sell it. #txeduchat
  309. A6: Are the questions reliable & valid? Was the student present when the material was taught? Any ambiguity in the questions? #txeduchat
  310. @beyondtech1 still learning but very intrugued. Going to see in action in a couple of weeks! #TXeduchat
  311. @JenaiaMorane @ChristineYH What I like abt it is that its inclusive & each learns at own pace #txeduchat
  312. @alicekeeler: Grading is about as precise as slicing strawberries with a hammer. #txeduchat” best way to explain grading ever!
  313. @alicekeeler That's why I try to keep my assessments short but very frequent. I don't need 12 questions to assess one skill. #TXeduchat
  314. .@Think_teach Post-secondary institutions might value GPA, but that doesn't mean the students do #txeduchat
  315. @CareerRI: @azawlocki Development of intrinsic motivation is the key to life long development of career readiness skills. #TXeduchat” Agree
  316. @DrBeckyO @MitchChampagne If other Ts graded your Ss work, would they give the same grade you gave? #txeduchat
  317. A5 grades extrinsic/intrinsic: D says: happy on inside because u did well & happy on outside because someone told u did well #txeduchat
  318. @beyondtech1 @alicekeeler @nathan_stevens They need to see the assessment, what they did/didn't do correctly but not a grade. #txeduchat
  319. @MrZawlocki FEEDBACK! Now… stop putting 40 kids in my class so I have time to do that #txeduchat
  320. History of Grades: So many kids in school we needed to move away from feedback #txeduchat
  321. #txeduchat A6, Mrs upset when kiddo brings home A> grade. As educator I know about differences. Effort matters over long haul. Grades ignore
  322. Feedback accompanied with a grade ends the learning process. Give feedback before the learning is "graded" #TXeduchat
  323. @alicekeeler @DrBeckyO @MitchChampagne It's great question. I don't use traditional rubrics 4 many writing assignments so hmm.. #txeduchat
  324. @alicekeeler #TXeduchat I use S examples to intro assn'ts in class, & colleagues to help benchmark levels afterwards B4 grading begins
  325. @alicekeeler @MitchChampagne I've tried this before with a T who had my same class. We swapped and had very diff results. #txeduchat
  326. @MitchChampagne But we do not have to slap a meaningless percentage on it. #txeduchat The instrument wasn’t that sharp to measure
  327. A6 What a waste! Have Ss show what learned & can do. Remember asking ur parents "watch this" every 3 sec? Lets get back to that! #txeduchat
  328. I allow my kids to redo assignments so that they can learn the concept, not just get a higher grade. #txeduchat
  329. How many of us use our evaluations as the sole measurement of who we are as Ts? Rhetorical ? :) #txeduchat
  330. @JudyArzt @Think_teach our higher Ed students worry about their GPA. Between that and their portfolio is what separates them #TXeduchat
  331. We put a lot of value in a one point difference of an 89 to a 90… yet we can not be laser sharp in our assessment #txeduchat
  332. @alicekeeler @DrBeckyO I like moderated marking sessions with other Ts. They help ensure the validity of assessment and feedback. #TXeduchat
  333. @alicekeeler @MitchChampagne It was a great learning experience! Makes you really reflect on grading practices. #txeduchat
  334. @beyondtech1 I think that we also have to reflect on what we are doing and how it can be better. #studentcentered #TXeduchat
  335. Why not just make it a 1 question quiz and make it pass or fail? In K, we score proficiencies as developing and mastered. #TXeduchat
  336. @safarnum Ames says the praise at the high school level does not have the same effect as at the elementary level #txeduchat
  337. for testing i love having kids teach me on a video. We then go over the video and they fix their errors #txeduchat
  338. Q7: Some electronic gradebooks & progress reports show a percentage and grade for each assignment. Good or Bad? #TXeduchat
  339. @alicekeeler Cycle of feedback & using formative assessments appropriately doesn't take much time. Common misconception. #TXeduchat
  340. Failure needs a new term. Too much baggage associated with it #TXeduchat
  341. @MitchChampagne @Tom_Kilgore So true! I grade my Ss on what they create & I work hard 2 keep them on top of their responsblities. #txeduchat
  342. #txeduchat Grading=antiquated becuz we no longer need peeps 2 be same. We need just the opposite - creative prob solving, innovation, etc.
  343. @alicekeeler Agreed. I have not given out a single "grade" to my students this year. All feedback, most of which is face to face. #TXeduchat
  344. LOVE-> “@rondorland: for testing i love having kids teach me on a video. We then go over the video and they fix their errors #txeduchat
  345. @Sciology Agreed - I'm trying to build in error analysis so I can assess HOW they will use feedback #TXeduchat
  346. @JudyArzt @nathan_stevens @Think_teach yes. sts value feeling creative and proud. portfolios are better than gpa for this #txeduchat
  347. A7. BAD. What is the tally about? Does it reflect work habits or Ss understanding? What about Ss engagement & critical thinking? #txeduchat
  348. I had my Ss grade their individual papers so that they could get quicker feedback on what areas they were struggling in. #txeduchat
  349. @nathan_stevens #txeduchat agree! Like the standards based RC... Developing, mastered, etc.
  350. A7) Our online gradebook does this. Ss often focus on assignments and argue a few pts to increase grade. Bad imo. #txeduchat
  351. @alicekeeler @beyondtech1 #txeduchat What a different world it would be if Edu system was required to sell Ss on what they should learn ;-)
  352. A7 - Happy to say I have not given out a % for 6 or 7 years. Unsure what a % really says about learning #TXeduchat
  353. A7 We can adjust our elect gradebks to not score a %,depends on how set up. Certainly shows what you believe #txeduchat
  354. A7) Electronic grade books need to catch up w/something more authentic like the ability to record progress under a SBG system. #TXeduchat
  355. @PaulSolarz @MitchChampagne Like the approach, I give Ss a "self grade" section on rubrics to check themselves before turn in #txeduchat
  356. @DrBeckyO And we let them scrape gum to earn those points rather than look at the body of the students work. #txeduchat
  357. I agree but I think that our grading system stops learning bc once you put a grade on something, Ss think they are done with it #txeduchat