#michED Chat 5/11/2016 - Failing Better

A chat about failure in the classroom, overcoming it, and getting better at facing it in the future.

  1. Hi everyone! I'm moderating tonight with @pagan_poggione. So happy to be here, thank you to the #michED folks for inviting us!
  2. Begin with introducing yourself (name, position, etc) and share your own "best failure" (time when a failure led to something good). #miched
  3. Hi all! I'm moderating tonight with @jkupp. I'm an education and training coordinator, from British Columbia. #miched
  4. Good evening! Rachelle from St. Clair. Sec Instruction Sup for @PHSchools . Trying to narrow my failures to "best". #miched
  5. Hey #michED! Will be in and out tonight but I'm here! Tech integration specialist in Lansing.
  6. Kaarin Averill tweeting for Oakland University School of Education. Had a few failed interviews before my desired job as a Principal #miched
  7. Judy from Livonia, upper elementary media specialist #miched
  8. Hi #miched Kit from Sarnia. Edtech for Port Huron Schools. Good Fail - Chess. I've lost way more than I've won but always improved.
  9. @jlbowling Welcome Judy! Media specialist in my former life. Heart still belongs to the library :) #miched
  10. A best failure: introducing a new tech tool to a class, failing miserably, and then modelling what I wanted the students to learn. #miched
  11. Hello! Carolyn. Failed with my first classroom but found a new position and reflected on my exp. to become a better teacher. #miched
  12. Greetings #miched - Joe from St. Joe lurking on the side.
  13. Anne from REMC 7, Ottawa Area ISD. So many 'good' failures it's hard to choose! #miched
  14. Here's my biggest good failure: Have you heard of the Tokyo Children's Museum? It doesn't exist. But planning it led to good stuff. #michED
  15. I've been there :-) Introducing new tech to Ss is perfect for "Good" failure. Love it when Ss have helped me #miched  https://twitter.com/pagan_poggione/status/730549573622468610 
  16. Q1: Are there “good” failures and “bad” failures? If so, what’s the difference? #miched
  17. Steve from Lake Orion. T and Dept Chair. Too many failures to count. Have them daily. Makes me try to improve daily. #miched
  18. My 1st webinar was an epic failure. Learned A LOT about how the delivery of content is very different than face to face #miched
  19. I failed in my goal to be an athletic trainer for the Detroit Pistons. But ended up in the library! #miched #twistypaths
  20. Hi #miched! I'm Sarah from Northwest in Jackson. Hoping I can get these kids to bed and chat for a few!
  21. Failure leads to learning. So in my mind...no bad failure. miched Simple thinking I know. #miched
  22. @jlbowling it is very different delivering PD electronically! What went wrong and what did you do different 2nd time? #miched
  23. 👋🏽ShabanaJameel Substitute/Indeoendent Consultant BayArea #miched
  24. A1: think a "good" failure is any time we learn from attempting something new/different. #michED
  25. A1: There are absolutely good failures. Those occur when you can learn from that failure and ultimately be successful #miched
  26. A1: Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so. *except for that 1 epic fail we won't discuss ;-) #miched
  27. Preventable failure is bad. Innovative/intelligent failure is good. #miched
  28. A1: So are there "bad" (or relatively bad) failures? Or just bad responses to failure? #miched
  29. If you've just joined the chat, here are our questions tonight for "Failing Better". We're on Q1  https://www.smore.com/5k4kd-failing-better  #miched
  30. A1. Good failures keep you moving in the 'right' direction #miched
  31. A1: Failure can be "bad" if nothing is learned. Same failures, no changes #miched
  32. A1: Or maybe better and worse times to fail. I don't want my surgeon or pilot to learn from failure. #michED
  33. A1: you learn from "good" failures. If you haven't learned anything from a failure I'd classify it as an "EPIC" bad failure. #miched
  34. A1: I think "bad" failures often end up being "good" failures because everything happens for a reason. #miched
  35. A1. Bad failures are the ones you don't learn from and keep making the same mistakes #miched
  36. A1: Good failures are in all of our exploring and experimenting until we achieve desired outcome or product. #miched
  37. A1: the difference between good and bad failures is the mindset: - resilience = good, excuses = bad #miched
  38. A1. Sometimes you have to repeat your bad failures a few times before the learning sets in...#miched
  39. I'm so careful w/Ss inClass iCan't 💭of a goodfail. iDon't experiment on👫them. Esp w/#EdTech 📲 #miched
  40. I guess I've learned I better tweet faster! I failed... I learned.. Success! Top that one! @RMWynkoop #miched
  41. A1: I'm not sure there are any bad failures, just bad responses to them. Some are definitely waaaay harder to deal w/than others. #miched
  42. A1: GoodFail:😬Apple. When SteveJobs told everyone to just use GoogleMaps. #miched BadFail Apple booted SteveJobs out of his own co!😮
  43. A1: failure is only a failure of you CHOOSE to not learn from it! Part of Ed journey, not a destination #miched
  44. Q2: Is failure treated differently in school than in “real life”? #miched
  45. A1: I prefer to think of it this way: Well that didn't work. Try another way. #miched
  46. @athorp That's the trick to "failing Better" I think. THere has to be learning and moving forward. Not an end. #miched
  47. A1: I think the natural or unnatural high stakes of a situation can certainly make a failure feel bad. #miched
  48. A2. Yes it is. Whenever we grade a "try" it stifles desire to learn from failure and take risks #miched
  49. A2: Many times failure in school is different. Especially when talking about grades. Move to competency can address that #mindshift #miched
  50. A2: #miched Unfortunately yes and mostly those failures are represented in "grades"
  51. A2: I feel the definition of failure is more universally defined in school. In life, it's what you make it -personally defined. #miched
  52. A2: Very different in education. Ss are taught to fear failure, not accept it as a possibility. #miched
  53. A2: in schools failure is a grade or ranking: can end in failure: life allows us to pick ourselves up and move past it! #miched
  54. A2: Instead of pass/fail how about proficient, not yet proficient but on the way! #miched
  55. I'm seeing several responses linking "failure" and "grading systems". How many are working on changing the way we grade? #miched
  56. A2: My opinion of failure is very diff today than it was just a few short years ago. Failure does not define me. #miched I won 't let it
  57. A2: Yes, unfortunately. We need our elders to recognize that sometimes failure leads to great successes -- just not right away. #miched
  58. A2: I feel that how a person deals with failure ultimately defines who they are in a way, in school or out of school - IMO #miched
  59. A2. In school, we often grade "practice" (homework, or formative assessment) which gives failing during practice something "bad" #miched
  60. A2: How about no zero systems? Just as bad as grades. Don't let Ss fail, and miss out on teaching them not to be afraid of failing. #miched
  61. Q2-sadly Ss in school connect failure to grades. In life, Ss takes more risks because to them it's more about the learning. #miched
  62. A2: Grading scale 60% based on failure. Can't think of many "life" equivalents #miched
  63. A2: It can depend on the situation but failure in school can seem more permanent when we give grades or make a record of failures #miched
  64. A2: Ss are so afraid to "fail, take risks at school- we saw that at a breakoutEDU in HS Alg this week. So reluctant to get started! #miched
  65. Sorry to be late #miched! Great topic that many of my HS alt. Ss have trouble with - Sarah Instructional Leader from MI
  66. @NoviAcademics BadFailure: "breaks bones." 👮🏻Brutality #SilentWarOnTerror i.e. Revenge for rebuffing👮🏻advances. #MichEd 👮🏻stole🚗Mar16
  67. @sharpsgalore As a system we train them for "right" answer instead of learning process. Going to take some work to undo expectations #miched
  68. A2: I think this is where schools can be exceptional. Schools have teachers, mentors, counselors who can guide failure and iteration #miched
  69. @sharpsgalore I think we've ruined many of them by punishing them for every failure... #miched
  70. Joining late, Tyler from Clinton, MI. How is everyone? #miched
  71. Joining late! Recent grad of U of M, excited to listen and weight in on tonght's topic for my future class. #miched
  72. @blocht574 Failure IS acceptable, but cannot be the final outcome. The mantra of my classroom! #miched
  73. A2: I've never seen a GPA, nor a serious attempt to sort & rank humans in the real-world #miched
  74. Q3: How can we allow more space or permission for good/productive failure in schools? #miched
  75. @RMWynkoop @jkupp Agreed. Need to cultivate mindset of "ok to risk" through what we do in our classes and what we say to them daily #miched
  76. A4. Stop grading practice or formative assessment! #miched
  77. @CCSGeorge Welcome Tyler! Happy to be learning with great #miched educators. Here is smore with questions. on Q3  https://www.smore.com/5k4kd-failing-better 
  78. A2: In School, there are DoOvers or ReDos. I don't think life ought to be that different. I think adults can find ways to turn ➖➡️➕ #MichEd
  79. A3: I think providing Ss with rubrics that allows them to evaluate their own progress and final product allows them to grow #miched
  80. A3. And use performance rubrics to grade for mastery, NOT compliance #miched
  81. A3: Classes centered around activities where there isn't one prescribed outcome, but where creativity & prob-solving are celebrated #miched
  82. A3: How about a failure manifesto? A vision of effort, iteration, process and eventual success for all Ss #miched
  83. A3: make space for risk, permission for all to experiment (both Ts and Ss), embrace student directed learning... #miched
  84. A3: Model it... Fess up and own your failures in front of Ss. They need to see it's ok and what you've learned from it. #miched
  85. Q2-daughters dance instructor taught her to say, "thank you for the opportunity to improve myself" every time they "fail" #miched
  86. A3: #miched Allow for explore/experiment time Share findings, revise, explore/experiment again Like a 4 yo with Legos Just keep building
  87. A3: Do we need to change vocabulary? "Failure" has negative connotation. What other verbage would applicable? #miched
  88. A3: Rubrics have been great to allow Ss to see the progress they made and where they need to go! It's a visual, not just a number. #miched
  89. A3: More projects with tangible outcomes- More self-reflective practices for students could help students understand learning #miched
  90. A2: failure is healthy & ppl are afraid to embrace- one of the few necessities we deny its value.Starts w babies and then to school #miched
  91. A3 Modeling what positive failure looks like. Edison and the light bulb! #miched
  92. A3: Teach students to self assess/evaluate results. Revise based on outcomes completed vs outcomes desired. #miched
  93. @RMWynkoop I've heard the word iteration used a lot lately, we're constantly getting better. #miched
  94. A3: Do lots and lots of practice that is low risk! Show them we are not perfect either. #miched
  95. A3: Also need more challenges with multiple ways to succeed. Hard to value failure if always one pre-define right answer. #miched
  96. A3: And what best responses to failure are! Many Ss haven't been taught or shown how to deal w/it. #miched  https://twitter.com/CCSGeorge/status/730555588069998592 
  97. @boblarson And I think being mindful of evaluation of and during process. Not just all the marbles for final presentation #miched
  98. A3: In Baseball players fail to get a hit more often than success! Batting .300 gets you to HOF ... what if 30% success got an A? #miched
  99. A3: if we evaluate what Ss learn then failure along way can have value. Logical to dislike failure when we punish it and devalue #miched
  100. @boblarson Meddling/Criminal women. Again #ClassDojo +👮🏻 Its like a psychotic v of PrideAndPrejudice. Worse than Zombies. Zombies. #MichEd
  101. @RMWynkoop let's be honest, test scores and funding is a huge negative influence on the mindset for failure #michED
  102. @athorp A2: Reteaching Opportunities. So Teat Retakes or more Tests can ensure Student Mastery + T growth. #MichEd
  103. A3: teach Ss design thinking, collaboration skills, agile process etc. Eg. prototyping is expected (fail and iterate) #miched
  104. Q3: I find the work in Grading Smarater Not Harder very helpful #miched
  105. Q4: How can we assess “good failure” in a learning environment? #miched
  106. @jkupp @sharpsgalore Doinks definitely ruin confidence. #MichEd And crushes that Entrepreneurial Spirit.
  107. A4. Good failure leads to increased motivation and toward a better solution #miched
  108. A4: Evaluate student work portfolios so that they can see their areas for growth and how they have improved over time #miched
  109. A4: Eliminate time as a variable for assessment. Some Ss need more time for mastery. Shouldn't be deemed a failure for this #miched
  110. A4: When mastery and student success are no longer a factor of time alone. That would be a good measure. #miched
  111. A4: Analyze growth. If you have to assign a grade, base it on improvement, or maintaining performance for the top. #miched
  112. @bushjms A2: Sociology. Social Class. SocioEconomics: How wealth affects status and Social Standing. #MichEd Also are you using hyperbole
  113. Q4: Goal setting can be used to assess "good failure". What is done with the failure is what can make it "good" #miched
  114. A4: Looking at the process rather than product. How did Ss change and improve upon their original idea? Could Ss identify errors? #miched
  115. A4: Reward effort. See failures as indicators of approaching the edge (or going over) and knowledge creation. #miched
  116. A4: We have to constantly assess how students adapt to failure, adjust their plans, move forward after the set backs #miched
  117. @CCSGeorge What if growth isn't linear? At what point do you assess the outcome? #miched
  118. A4: "Good" failures require reflection which demonstrates higher order thinking. I'll take that any day! #miched
  119. A4. Show that practice/formative assessment leads to mastery by NOT grading it. Grade final assessment and teach success on that #miched
  120. @kithard Well NCAA requires defined time to prove competency! Another limitation, similar to testing #miched
  121. @jlbowling I.e. TY for your mom's Business. Any fails are of your own doing? #MichEd Read this awful📰on HS s put in wrong Math Class+blamed
  122. @RMWynkoop True enough - unlimited time is not viable, but we can reduce influence of time on mastery #miched
  123. A4. Reflection also an important part of good failure #miched
  124. @jkupp @CCSGeorge That is the question! I actually like Common Core for this reason. Consistent standards taken deeper as spiral. #miched
  125. @jkupp We utilize SLOs, unique to each student and analyzed over the academic year. #miched
  126. A4: I've failed to label my answer correctly. I should have said "A4" in my previous post. :) #miched
  127. A4: Learning that is referenced as part of a continuum that allows the student to self assess & to see the path forward. #miched
  128. A4: Shift emphasis! Show details of what Ss know & can do. Our Ss get a report of learning targets & can revise at any point in HS #miched
  129. A4: Teachers want to see growth as the outcome. Performance does not necessarily matter as long as there is improvement #miched
  130. A4: Demonstrating how the Ts have had "good failures" and model strategies for growth w/ Ss. #miched
  131. @sarahyogidds I like this shift. We're always focused on what is wrong, or don't know. Need to affirm what has been learned/is known #miched
  132. Q5: Does failure have an image problem? Do we need to “rebrand” failure? #miched
  133. A4: also borrowing from @LDH_ed for next year. Our Ss will reflect on how they exemplify our Comm. Habits throughout their time w/us #miched
  134. @RMWynkoop @jkupp We have to use data (SAT/SLO/P-P) I like using LEQ, SAQ, and DBQ for my AP classes. #miched
  135. A4: Important to show that there is seldom an "end point" to learning- just mastery & progression. #miched
  136. A5: Acceptance of failure as a final outcome with no room for growth definitely creates an image problem for failure. #miched
  137. A5: Rebrand? No. Reassess its use/language. Yes #miched
  138. A5: Most students view failure as a destination, Think if they fail will end up living on streets, not amounting to much #miched
  139. A5: I would add that the letter "F" has an image problem & has become synonymous w/ failure in many schools as lowest on the scale.. #miched
  140. A5: People often see failure as a permanent state, not as a learning experience. What you take away from failure can lead to success #miched
  141. A4- failure can be turned into feedback and Ss need to be able to reflect on their learning experience #miched
  142. A5: I threw out this question too! ELA teacher in mean thinks of great opportuniit for connotation/denotation exploration #miched
  143. A5 - Sort of. That it is an effective learning tool doesn't change the fact that we, and our students, would prefer to avoid it. #MichEd
  144. A5: Failure is often correlated with the "prison pipeline" stigma, which is not fair. Certainly needs rebranded #miched
  145. Q5: Poor grading practices & zeros have perpetuated the problem. Needs to focus on a where learning is in progression. #miched
  146. #miched A5 as we redo standards based report cards this summer..any suggestions?
  147. A5: If there's no opportunities to fail, the bar is in the wrong place. Google x lab is an example of this. Their motto "fail fast" #miched
  148. A5: the connotation with failure is usually permanent and negative so we need to create an atmosphere where failures lead to success #miched
  149. A5 - Failure and "a great attempt indicative of someone who is still working toward mastery" are really two different things. #MichED
  150. @8TeachWriteArt8 A3: #EdTech. I was super cautious bc I had 1stGr. Older Ss can likely give ⬆️feedback. #MichEd Make class #STEM compliant
  151. A5: Remember that failure/success is a duality. We have a lot of emotional attachment to winning, being the best, and perfections #miched
  152. @NGSS_tweeps @czem @kmbmhersh Using the K-5 What my Evidence w/ Literacy network tomorrow. #ngsschat #miched
  153. @RickBlais1 we broke down the standards into student-friendly LTs...much easier for Ss to self-assess growth too #miched
  154. @kithard True, and we seem to accept that duality better in games and sports. Losing doesn't mean you're a bad player. #miched
  155. A5: Instead of Ss thinking failure is an ending and cannot move on, we need to show them it is a starting point for learning #miched
  156. Off to get a hair cut, have a nice night! #sstlap starts soon!! #miched
  157. A5 Yes! Too often Ss view failure as "I'm not smart", "Why bother?" We must teach Ss that when we "fail" we reflect, learn and grow #miched
  158. @alanakooi @kithard I'll take failures all day long if the students at least try and put forth effort. #growthmindset #miched
  159. A5: We have a culture where Ts can help w/ any class so they may see me struggle through alg and that helps their confidence! #MichEd
  160. Wow, the hour has flown by -- a final question in a minute... #miched
  161. @jkupp Yes, but we also consider "winning" better. At what point is perfection/winning "stuck" or "not growing"? #miched
  162. A5: redefining failure and building trust among Ss might create more space for experimentation and risk-taking #miched
  163. A5: Why are we even talking about failure when we are working with kids that are growing and learning- makes no sense. #Miched
  164. Q6: Any additional thoughts on how can we help Ss and Ts look at failure as a learning experience? #miched
  165. @massp Good Q. Sad to see 1st graders feel like math failures when they can't do popcorn math fast enough #miched
  166. Join #mschat tomorrow night at 8 PM ET as @Veeshan16 leads the conversation on Tech in the Middle #miched https://t.co/cy9XU30FCO
    Join #mschat tomorrow night at 8 PM ET as @Veeshan16 leads the conversation on Tech in the Middle #miched pic.twitter.com/cy9XU30FCO
  167. I'm not sure I understand "failure" same as the rest. Some talk of failure as "any attempt not perfect." That's a harsh definition. #MichED
  168. @hs_math_phys Failure is a swing and a miss... but we do get to go to bat again! #miched
  169. I think there's a lot of student tries that aren't perfect and also aren't failures. They are successes despite their imperfections. #MichED
  170. A6: Teach Ss how to evaluate their own work to make it better. I always tell them "When you're done you've just begun." #miched
  171. A6: tell students real experiences of our failures and how we overcame them (inside and outside the school environment) #miched
  172. A6: Need to allow risks and give students tasks that they will fail at to then see what they learn from it.. then do it again #miched
  173. A5 modeling our own failures n how we overcame them n got better helps students relate and see first hand how it can teach us. #MichEd
  174. A6) If T defined S and F then it is judgmental and summative. If student defines it then it is formative and leads to growth #miched
  175. @blocht574 @hs_math_phys But what's a success? HR? Triple? Single? Walk? different levels of success too. #miched
  176. @massp Right? They should feel on top of the world every day...their entire future of possibilities is ahead of them #miched
  177. A6: We need to be ok with being uncomfortable and educators need to model being ok with the unknown to learners. #miched
  178. @PhysicsGuyTighe @blocht574 @hs_math_phys Success is making it to base could be a Hit by Pitch or walk ... many levels #miched
  179. A6 Pause, think, and reflect upon our own individual failures and how we regrouped. What did we do? Share with our fellow Ss and Ts #miched
  180. A6: Side by side. Try with them again, again, again. Look for differences in each attempt. Celebrate differences. #miched
  181. A6 continued: show Ss that we as Ts fail sometimes too and talk about how we address our failures and learn from them #miched
  182. @kithard @jkupp A (whatever): That new Book by JessicaLahey addresses this: The Gift of Failure. #MichEd She wasn't invited to speak in MI.
  183. Unpopular opinion... tech integration people need to be in classroom everyday. Ideas&practicality differ when you are in an office #miched
  184. @hs_math_phys Only failure if that is the destination we choose. Steps toward success, failure is only defined by what happens next #michED
  185. Everyone, thanks so much for joining in tonight -- it's been great! #miched
  186. Great modeling Carolyn! We need to share how we have failed. And used it as learning experience to success #miched  https://twitter.com/CarolynSeiger/status/730563166887919616 
  187. Hope to see you all for more conversations in person at the iiE Gathering in Ann Arbor, June 22-25!  http://iie.institute  #miched
  188. A6: A class is a team where the Ss AND Ts have to improve their work everyday for learning. i.e. changing lessons through the day #miched
  189. Thank you @jkupp & @pagan_poggione from @iie_institute for challenging our thinking on "failing better" tonight. Great convo #miched
  190. A special thanks to @pagan_poggione and @jkupp for helping us dig into failure, and what it means for students! #michED