"Atheist movement is such a joke."

A simple tweet about the atheist movement explodes.


  1. Before I begin, I want to make clear that I have a lot of respect for the work that everyone involved has done for the secular/atheist cause. Sarah Moglia LITERALLY dealt with shit for the cause. Matt spends every week taking calls on TV. 
  2. Sarah Moglia talks about starting a Secular Student Alliance meetup at school
  3. This drama starts when Sarah Moglia tweets about Edwina Rogers getting fired from Secular Coalition. In the tweet, Sarah, an atheist, calls the atheist movement a joke.
  4. Up to this point we have a claim made with one data point. This gets called out as an unfair generalization. Now, the conversation heads in two different directions. 

    Rather then acknowledging that she had not, up to this point, provided much data to support the "atheist movement a joke" claim - she provides more evidence that it is a joke. Unfortunately, the evidence is secret knowledge.
  5. The conversation gets frustrating for me to follow. There are more data points. Sarah has seen atheist org do unprofessional things. What things? "Unprofessional" is an extremely vague term. Were these things actions taken by the orgs or just people in them? In what way do these things make the orgs a joke?
  6. Matt continues to respond to the initial statement. I think if Sarah corrected her initial statement to either include more data or to exclude the generalization, the drama and hurt that seems to surface would never come to be.
  7. The activity was not just unprofessional, it was unethical.

    Sarah believes there is some knowledge shared by Matt and Sarah about what the orgs do. However, neither person seems to be willing to share the knowledge.  Most of us reading this public discussion don't even have a high level view of what sort of ethical misdeeds are being talked about.  

    I'm inclined to believe there is SOMETHING under the surface. I don't know how big, bad, or wide spread it is. But there is SOMETHING. Does American Atheist have ties to the mob? Does the FFRF deal drugs on the side? Can we get a hint? Leave names out if need be. At least share the level of unethicalness that is involved and how wide spread is it. 

    Couple of fictional examples: "At least X atheist/secular organizations are taking large quantities of money donated to them for personal use". Or "At least X atheist/secular organizations are running human trafficking rings". The idea here is to provide an indication of the scale of the issue. 

    Is there something specific about atheists organizations that leads to ethics issues? 

    The bulk of us are left in the dark. We are left with the fact that this started with a tweet labeling the movement a joke, and included one datapoint. 
    The public conversation regarding this secret info, turns really personal.
  8. What started out as simple tweet about the atheist movement being a joke and an article about Edwina Rogers being fired has somehow turned into a possible defriending. WTF. This seems like too trivial of an issue to defriend over. Unless of course. CFI is running a slave trade.

    It would have been nice if Sarah had said something like "Based on what I'm willing to share, I agree the tweet was an overgeneralization. But, I consider atheist organizations to be bad because of the unethical activities I've witnessed." 

    That, I believe, would have addressed Matt and Sarah's concerns.