Worried about the #rebrandingfeminism thing because of reasons already covered, but also because it excites this guy scripting.com/2013/09/25/reb…
Scripting News: Rebranding feminism?I especially liked this piece about a contest they're running to rebrand feminism. I support all the goals they outline there, and especi...- While most responses I received were from people who immediately understood the deep and profound flaws in the article, one person spoke up to say he disagreed. I have tried my best to put the conversation in a coherent order, but of course with replies and counter-replies coming in no particular order, some parts of the conversation are not contiguous.
@colinized @juliepagano @Crommunist genuinely confused as to what was wrong with anything that guy said.
@BlakeSeidler - really. Hmm. The wrong seems pretty glaringly clear to me.- @BlakeSeidler - the whole thing is a massive exercise in privilege denial. It's basically a denialist bingo card come to life.
- @Crommunist I'm trying to see it, and I know I have my own privilege and bias in the way, but the guy's experience with feminists online...
- @Crommunist exactly mirrors my own. A big part of my atheist/humanist motivation is gender equality, I don't see that I perpetuate sexism.
- @BlakeSeidler - the fact of not seeing it is not evidence of not doing it. http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2012/06/26/when-the-goggles-come-off/ …rommunist/201…
- @BlakeSeidler - but if your experiences with feminism have left you with the impression that the "real problem" is feminists, then uh-oh
- @BlakeSeidler - also there are multiple definitions of "gender equality" that people use, and not all of them are laudable.
- @Crommunist no, that has not happened. I get the goggle analogy, and I've had experience with removing goggles (coming out of faith)...
- @Crommunist so I'm careful to watch for blind spots, but the reason that I guard against blindness makes me cautious of claims of new colors
- @Crommunist I'm listening, but I hear an awful lot of dismissiveness toward people like me by feminists. And it's frustratig.
- @BlakeSeidler - to translate this back to the topic at hand, are you saying you're cautious of claims of sexism/misogyny?
- @Crommunist no, not at all, I have seen them firsthand, and definitely been a participant, especially while a christian.
- @BlakeSeidler - do you have a clear idea of WHY that dismissiveness is there?
- @Crommunist I think so, but it too often comes across as insularity, xenophobia, and unwillingness to consider dissenting views.
- @Crommunist the insider jargon, the dogmatism & zeal of some adherents, accomp'd by regular misrepresentation of opponents is off-putting.
- @BlakeSeidler - "comes across as" is not the same thing as "is". Have you considered that you might just not like getting criticized?
- @Crommunist it's not criticisms of me that frustrate me.
- @Crommunist I am skeptical of claims about the pervasiveness of patriarchy and rape culture, especially within atheism.
- This is a pretty weighty claim, so I pressed him to clarify.
- @BlakeSeidler - a) why would it be less prevalent in the atheist community than in society at large?
- @Crommunist because the rejection of explicit patriarchal gender roles is such an obvious trend among atheists.
Zealous and dogmatic feminists
I fell into discussion about the issue of "dogmatic" feminists alienating male allies by criticizing them for exhibiting privilege. This is a common claim, and one that I have little patience or sympathy for.
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