- Worried about the #rebrandingfeminism thing because of reasons already covered, but also because it excites this guy scripting.com/2013/09/25/reb…
http://twitter.com/juliepagano/status/383271686118064128
— Julie Pagano (@juliepagano)Thu, Sep 26 2013 16:47:45 Scripting News: Rebranding feminism?
I especially liked this piece about a contest they're running to rebrand feminism. I support all the goals they outline there, and especi...- While most responses I received were from people who immediately understood the deep and profound flaws in the article, one person spoke up to say he disagreed. I have tried my best to put the conversation in a coherent order, but of course with replies and counter-replies coming in no particular order, some parts of the conversation are not contiguous.
- @colinized @juliepagano @Crommunist genuinely confused as to what was wrong with anything that guy said.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383317910904524801
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 19:51:26 - @BlakeSeidler - really. Hmm. The wrong seems pretty glaringly clear to me.
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383318031629168640
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 19:51:55 - @BlakeSeidler - the whole thing is a massive exercise in privilege denial. It's basically a denialist bingo card come to life.
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383318313780015104
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 19:53:02 - @Crommunist I'm trying to see it, and I know I have my own privilege and bias in the way, but the guy's experience with feminists online...
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383325266069561344
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:20:39 - @Crommunist exactly mirrors my own. A big part of my atheist/humanist motivation is gender equality, I don't see that I perpetuate sexism.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383325560903974912
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:21:50 - @BlakeSeidler - the fact of not seeing it is not evidence of not doing it. http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2012/06/26/when-the-goggles-come-off/ …rommunist/201…
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383326283884531712
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:24:42 - @BlakeSeidler - but if your experiences with feminism have left you with the impression that the "real problem" is feminists, then uh-oh
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383326752929378304
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:26:34 - @BlakeSeidler - also there are multiple definitions of "gender equality" that people use, and not all of them are laudable.
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383326408241459200
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:25:12 - @Crommunist no, that has not happened. I get the goggle analogy, and I've had experience with removing goggles (coming out of faith)...
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383329880592482305
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:39:00 - @Crommunist so I'm careful to watch for blind spots, but the reason that I guard against blindness makes me cautious of claims of new colors
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383330943617884160
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:43:13 - @Crommunist I'm listening, but I hear an awful lot of dismissiveness toward people like me by feminists. And it's frustratig.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383331630556786688
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:45:57 - @BlakeSeidler - to translate this back to the topic at hand, are you saying you're cautious of claims of sexism/misogyny?
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383331637880049664
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:45:59 - @Crommunist no, not at all, I have seen them firsthand, and definitely been a participant, especially while a christian.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383349658522624000
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 21:57:35 - @BlakeSeidler - do you have a clear idea of WHY that dismissiveness is there?
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383331887495655424
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 20:46:58 - @Crommunist I think so, but it too often comes across as insularity, xenophobia, and unwillingness to consider dissenting views.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383351907223232512
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:06:31 - @Crommunist the insider jargon, the dogmatism & zeal of some adherents, accomp'd by regular misrepresentation of opponents is off-putting.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383353640850702337
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:13:25 - @BlakeSeidler - "comes across as" is not the same thing as "is". Have you considered that you might just not like getting criticized?
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383352250359246848
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:07:53 - @Crommunist it's not criticisms of me that frustrate me.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383353917842522114
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:14:31 - @Crommunist I am skeptical of claims about the pervasiveness of patriarchy and rape culture, especially within atheism.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383350765558824963
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:01:59 - This is a pretty weighty claim, so I pressed him to clarify.
- @BlakeSeidler - a) why would it be less prevalent in the atheist community than in society at large?
http://twitter.com/Crommunist/status/383351820849930240
— Crommunist (@Crommunist)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:06:11 - @Crommunist because the rejection of explicit patriarchal gender roles is such an obvious trend among atheists.
http://twitter.com/BlakeSeidler/status/383355387170148352
— Blake Seidler (@BlakeSeidler)Thu, Sep 26 2013 22:20:21
