Martin Belam · Storify

Guardian & Observer NUJ debate on the nature and future of journalism

Martin Belam — Wed, 16 May 2012 19:13:51 GMT

On Wednesday May 16th 2012, the Guardian & Observer Chapel of the NUJ held a debate at the Guardian’s offices on the nature and future of journalism

Storified by Martin Belam · Wed, May 16 2012 12:13:51

NUJ Debate starting now in the Rotunda bar ... tweet your thoughts, and we'll let you know what's going on ... #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:31:25

Serious question for @GONUJ #GONUJ: how can journalism, whatever it might be, help a loss-making business become profitable?
— Patrick Smith · Wed, May 16 2012 10:23:19

Paul Anderson is talking about the jobs market ... cyclical and structural decline in employment; about 20,000 jobs lost in 10 years #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:31:39

Paul talking about the familiar subject of multi-skilling; just in case you thought you were on your own, multi-platformers! #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:34:35

#gonuj Very few journalists making money out of serious journalism as freelancers
— patdevereaux · Wed, May 16 2012 10:36:48

And on self-publishing , citizen journos ... although revealing new stuff, won't replace role of media orgs: how to make online pay? #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:39:28

And now Andrew Sparrow ... when the book on the death of journalism is written, I'll be there! #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:41:37

Andrew Sparrow: I do the signal int. I can't tell you what politicians eat for lunch ... blogging is like broadcasting #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:43:46

"Is blogging #journalism? Yes. Just the kind you can do from your bedroom & not get paid. Pay isn't index of worth" @andrewsparrow #goNUJ
— Eliza Anyangwe · Wed, May 16 2012 10:45:14

Andrew Sparrow: I'm wary about using pay to define journalism, but opportunities are better than they've ever been #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:45:19

Andrew Sparrow: I think the problems in the business are structural, and that citizen journalism is here to stay ... #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:46:10

Andrew Sparrow: we should focus the debate more on are you a good journalist, rather than are you a journalist ... #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:49:02

Deborah Orr's on now : journalism is not a profession, it's a trade, and that's what we've lost sight of! anyone can be a journalist #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:51:27

Now Debora Orr is speaking. General tone so far not wildly optinistic about future of the profession. Follow @go_NUJ for more detail #goNUJ
— John Stuttle · Wed, May 16 2012 10:51:55

"#Journalism isn't a profession. It's a trade. You don't need a qualification to do it." I rather like @deborahJaneorr. #goNUJ
— Eliza Anyangwe · Wed, May 16 2012 10:52:40

Deborah Orr: things are going to get a lot worse before they get better, but eventually people will pay for the Guardian online #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:52:44

Now from Claire Armitstead, Gdn books ed: interdependency of media; the business of "open" , bringing commenters above the line ... #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:56:01

Claire Armitstead: journalism is about investigating stories and telling them ... #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 10:57:29

Andrew Sparrow on James Cameron: journalism's a craft, or trade, not profession. Good, because that means they can't throw you out! #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 11:01:07

Paul: Where you had regional papers, you now have degree courses, hence professionalisation of a trade, and the makings of a crisis #gonuj
— GuardianObserver NUJ · Wed, May 16 2012 11:06:15

The Guardian and @911tenyearsago

Martin Belam — Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:42:14 GMT

The Guardian attracted criticism on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks for a Twitter account that was replaying the events in real-time.

Storified by Martin Belam · Sun, Apr 15 2012 13:42:14

Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz al-Omari board American Airlines Flight 11 at Boston Logan airport
— 9/11 ten years ago · Sun, Sep 11 2011 04:35:02

American Airlines Flight 11 leaves Boston for Los Angeles with five hijackers onboard
— 9/11 ten years ago · Sun, Sep 11 2011 04:59:02

United Airlines Flight 175 leaves for Los Angeles from Boston Logan airport, also with five hijackers onboard
— 9/11 ten years ago · Sun, Sep 11 2011 05:14:02

Negative reaction was immediate and very strong

This is just unnecessary in the extreme. Stupid idea from the Guardian. What's the point? @911tenyearsago
— LaurieHanna · Sun, Sep 11 2011 04:48:55

RT @journotutor: + 1 “@suellewellyn: Struggling to understand what's to be gained by @911tenyearsago.”
— helenlawson7 · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:05:31

RT @Downes_Cook: @gregsmyth think'll unfollow anyone the retweets anything by @911tenyearsago today.#Cheap.
— redstarbelsize · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:07:47

RT @Mr_Considerate: Want to see the very definition of a bad idea? I suggest you look at @911tenyearsago. 9/11 minute by minute, as if we'd had Twitter.
— Marlboro_Light · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:09:11

RT @mjrobbins: I feel @911tenyearsago crosses a line that e.g. the NYT audio timeline (http://lay.si/h1) didn't - latter has genuine journalistic value.
— malcolmcoles · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:09:21

RT @scottgarnham: I'm sorry but I don't agree with the tweets from @911tenyearsago. I find it morbid and unnecessary.
— PrincessGirlEm · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:56

@911tenyearsago what is the reason for this??? Absolute bollocks
— JonMcClure · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:28

I'm sorry, @911tenyearsago, but this is just plain ghoulish. Poor move by the @guardian.
— dotparkerdotcom · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:35

RT @davesusetty: So in an hour or so will @911tenyearsago be tweeting things like "People have begun jumping from the towers" etc? What's the point?
— KeefFan · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:30

Don't see the point of @911tenyearsago esp since it's tweeting what actually happened more than how it was reported. #911
— sjcoltrane · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:44

now you can relive 9/11 in real-time with @911tenyearsago...will they do the bit where people start jumping to their deaths? stay classy!
— FUERTESKNIGHT · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:08:39

remembering #911- @atul_gawande tweets his personal memories-> sensiive. @911tenyearsago gives factual account-> seems insensitive
— AnneMarie Cunningham · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:35:54

But there were also some people finding it interesting

RT @mofgimmers: This @911tenyearsago account makes for fascinatingly grim reading.
— BrimfulOfRush · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:07:57

Everyone go follow @911tenyearsago. R.I.P
— Abzydiddly182 · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:07:46

RT @ldn_citygirl: Go and follow @911tenyearsago live tweets of 9/11 as they happened. It's heart breaking but important! x
— AliceRichardson · Sun, Sep 11 2011 06:06:26

MAC vs EDL in Walthamstow

Martin Belam — Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:03:58 GMT

Two rival groups marched in Walthamstow in London today. The Muslims Against Crusades recently put up posters declaring areas "Shariah controlled zones", and the English Defence League turned up to defend our honour. Personally, I'd rather see neither group of bigoted extremists in my hometown...

Storified by Martin Belam · Thu, Oct 27 2011 00:44:44

1.bp.blogspot.com

I first noticed the "Shariah Controlled Zone" poster story when this blog post popped up in my Google Alert about Walthamstow about two weeks ago...

Gates of Vienna: London is a Shariah-Controlled Zone

A reader in London just sent us the following photo, which is fairly self-explanatory: He included this note: Please see attached a poster seen stuck on to a bus stop on corner of Mission Grove and Carisbrooke Road, London E17.

There was a follow-up post which managed to call the area "Walthamstow Forest" and attributed the Grauniad nickname to the local Waltham Forest Guardian & Gazette. Fact-checking not the strong suit on this blog it seems

Gates of Vienna: Combating the Fear of Crime in Walthamstow

I wrote last week about the sudden appearance of posters announcing a “shariah-controlled zone” in the Walthamstow Forest area of East London. In response, a reader in Germany emailed us yesterday with a question about what was happening in Walthamstow: I read in your blog about sharia-controlled zones in Walthamstow.

The story eventually made The Sun on July 28th. I thought it was a well-written piece that treated the people putting the posters up - Muslims Against Crusades - as the small powerless fringe group that they are, and got some great quotes from the local community dismissing their campaign. Well done The Sun.

Hate preacher: One day
we will stone adulterers
Local Muslims: It’s Britain
...don’t tell us how to live" style="display: block; width: 100px;" />Hate preacher: One day
we will stone adulterers
Local Muslims: It’s Britain
...don’t tell us how to live

But yesterday bemused residents of Waltham Forest were reacting to news the borough had been declared an Islamic emirate by a fringe group of fundamentalists. The group Muslims Against Crusades has demanded strict Sharia law in the east London community - banning gambling, smoking and alcohol.

It became apparent there were going to be lots of demos going in the borough at the weekend. Muslims Against Crusades were marching, the EDL were rumoured to be coming, and there was an inter-faith march of peace scheduled.

WALTHAM FOREST: Extremists plan rival protests

EXTREMIST Islamist group Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) is planning a demonstration in the borough this weekend. Police previously said the far right English Defence League (EDL) were expected to hold a counter demonstration, but the group has only said it "may" take action.

The planned demos sparked debate on a local web forum

My home town Walthamstow EDL vs MAC face off!

My home town Walthamstow EDL vs MAC face off! Re: My home town Walthamstow EDL vs MAC face off! Re: My home town Walthamstow EDL vs MAC face off! You label the EDL as one monolithic entity and then declare to hate them all without qualification...sounds a bit sweeping and judgmental to me?

On Saturday, local MP Stella Creasy joined the inter-faith march for peace

Heading to join the waltham forest interfaith friendship walk - in theory should be on Orford road if anyone wants to join...
— stellacreasy · Sat, Jul 30 2011 03:09:22

The faithwalk moves gently along Orford road http://lockerz.com/s/124977289 · stellacreasy

Later in the day, mass conflict was avoided in central Walthamstow, but there was disruption as the bus station was closed. Here are some of the tweets, including coverage from the local paper

March reaches central Walthamstow. Police react quickly to potential flashpoint outside the Goose. Now calm
— WFGuardian · Sat, Jul 30 2011 07:10:41

Oh good racist fuckwits and religious fuckwits both on the march in walthamstow today.(I'm not counting the interacts lot in either group)
— will_full · Sat, Jul 30 2011 07:11:04

Walthamstow is a madness right now! I'm watching a face-off between 15pub hooligans and about 50islamic radicals lol
— ayomusic · Sat, Jul 30 2011 07:19:36

Walthamstow Bus Station shut because of a combination of the Muslim Against Crusades and EDL demos. A pox on both their bigoted houses.
— currybet · Sat, Jul 30 2011 07:22:35

Fuckin cuntish motherfuka EDL in Walthamstow today!! 2 days b4 Ramadaan, are u havin a fukn bubble!! #fuckheaddimwits
— TanyaDeen · Sat, Jul 30 2011 07:44:59

Alan Rusbridger Live Q&A on Phone-Hacking

Martin Belam — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:51:02 GMT

Guardian Editor Alan Rusbridger answers readers' questions on the phone-hacking scandal that has engulfed News International

Storified by Martin Belam · Thu, Oct 27 2011 01:00:51

LIVE Q&A with @arusbridger launches in 2 minutes here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/07/phone-hacking-alan-rusbridger
— bellamackie · Thu, Jul 07 2011 06:27:43

Q&A with @arusbridger - On what he told Cameron & Clegg about Coulson - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11473968
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:04:31

Q&A with @arusbridger - On state licensing for the press - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474152
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:04:53

Q&A with @arusbridger - Is there evidence of hacking at other papers? - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474037
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:04:42

Q&A with @arusbridger - On whether Cameron's position is untenable - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474211
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:05:03

Q&A with @arusbridger - On why the @UKPCC can't go on as it is - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474387
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:05:15

Q&A with @arusbridger - On seeing a sea-change in the response of MPs and other papers to the story - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474538
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:11:58

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: @Guardian's rules about paying for stories or using outside investigators - http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11474860
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:28:38

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: Not being able to understand how Rebekah did her job without an audit trail http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475222
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:46:23

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: On the possibility of hiring Hugh Grant http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475242
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:46:54

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: Confirms he has had no contact with Operation Weeting http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475276
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:57:07

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: On whether he would rejoin the @UKPCC code committee http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475415
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 07:59:24

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: On how a reformed press regulator might carry out and pay for investigations http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475551
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 08:37:22

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: On whether he anticipated the public outrage over the story at the outset http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475663
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 08:38:04

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: "As far as we know Steve Whittamore did no phone-hacking [for the Observer]" http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475756
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 08:40:39

Q&A with @arusbridger: On how digital means journalists should be more open about their sources and link out http://bit.ly/q9zH7D
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 08:43:10

#notw #phonehacking Q&A with @arusbridger: On why student journalists should get a thorough course in ethics http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/comment-permalink/11475936
— currybet · Thu, Jul 07 2011 08:46:20

...and just about at that moment, they axed The News Of The World

Toby Young, Johann Hari, "stealth edits" and article metadata

Martin Belam — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 23:48:11 GMT

Changes and edits to Toby Young's blog post about the Johann Hari affair highlight some of the issues around "living stories" and article metadata on news sites

Storified by Martin Belam · Thu, Oct 27 2011 01:07:40

On Wednesday morning, Johann Hari posted his apology to his own website

Here's my response to yesterday's allegations: http://tinyurl.com/5trkgo8 (Going up on Indie website soon). Thanks to everyone who got in touch x
— johannhari101 · Wed, Jun 29 2011 00:37:21

My response to yesterday's allegations : Johann Hari

Posted by Johann Hari Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:21:00 GMT Yesterday on Twitter I was accused of plagiarism. This accusation is totally false - but I have reflected seriously on this and do have something to apologize for.

A little later on, it was published on The Independent site. Johann tweeted a link to it at 10:32am

Here's my response to yesterday, on the Indie site: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/my-journalism-is-at-the-centre-of-a-storm-this-is-what-i-have-learned-2304199.html
— johannhari101 · Wed, Jun 29 2011 02:32:37

Johann Hari: My journalism is at the centre of a storm. This is what I have learned

Johann Hari's professional reputation has been subjected to trial by Twitter. Here he explains what the affair has taught him Yesterday on Twitter I was accused of plagiarism. This accusation is totally false - but I have reflected seriously on this and do have something to apologise for.

At some point in the morning, Toby Young blogged about the issue for The Telegraph.

Johann Hari digs himself in even deeper – Telegraph Blogs

For an experienced journalist, Johann Hari hasn't handled the furore surrounding his cut-and-paste interview technique very well. His first response on his blog a couple of days ago was laughably inadequate. Rather than apologise to his readers and his legions of fans for misleading them, he refused to admit he'd done anything wrong.

Toby's blog included this paragraph: "Clearly, Hari would need to do better and in today's Independent he has taken a stab at apologizing. Interestingly, the Independent has chosen not to put this article online, possibly seeing an opportunity to boost newsstand sales, such is the media excitement over the scandal. But Hari has blundered again."

Johann Hari digs himself in even deeper: For an experienced journalist, Johann Hari hasn’t handled the furore su... http://tgr.ph/jMl8jf
— toadmeister · Wed, Jun 29 2011 04:58:10

At 12:58, Toby was retweeting the link to his blog post. It still included the statement that Hari's apology had not appeared on The Independent's site, even though it had subsequently been updated to include a link to Guy Walters' New Statesman blog post on the topic. Guy's post was time-stamped at 11:25, just under an hour after Johann Hari had tweeted about the apology appearing on The Independent site.

I pointed this out to Toby Young on Twitter

.@toadmeister Toby, shouldn't you update where you say Indy hasn't published @johannhari101's apology online? It did so at least 2 hours ago
— currybet · Wed, Jun 29 2011 05:06:22

At 13:51, Toby's blog post still stated that The Independent had not published the apology online in an effort to drive up sales, as evidence by this screenshot from my iPhone.

currybet.net

Later in the day, the post was amended. The suggestion that The Independent had refused to publish online was replaced with a hyperlink to the apology.

currybet.net

However, if you look at the timestamp on the story, it says it was last updated at 12:19. You can see that in the right-hand blog post listing of this screengrab, taken at 15:06 on the Wednesday

currybet.net

It raises an interesting questions about how we update news sites when a story is developing, and how we signal that to the users. Toby Young was left in the awkward position for at least 3 hours and twenty minutes today of having a glaring inaccuracy in his article about journalistic accuracy. When it was fixed, there was no evidence left that anything had changed, nor was the timestamp updated. It is known as a "stealth edit" - which changes the fabric of an article but leaves no trace.

At The Guardian, we have an 'Article history' option, which will give a more detailed breakdown of the timestamp - including when a stroy was first published, and when it was last updated. It still doesn't, though, allow a user to go back and see previous versions.